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On Tithing (1 Cor. 9) | The Sandhurst Podcast
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In this episode, Will and Adam dive into the topic of tithing, generosity, and barriers to the Gospel.
All right. Welcome to the Sandhurst podcast, which we don't quite have a name for yet. But uh out of the pool of options, here's here's my go-to for now.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_04Beyond Sunday. Beyond Sunday. If you if you got thoughts, uh shoot them into hello at St.Hurst.net. But Beyond Sunday, the St. Hurst Podcast, here's what we're trying to do. We're trying to equip the Saints to think biblically.
SPEAKER_00Because I yeah, about God like culture. Yes. I was thinking about calling it drill down, but then that reminded me of going to the dentist. So I think I I think Beyond Sunday is in the lead, yes.
SPEAKER_04All right. Well, here's what we're gonna do today. Um we are going to uh we're actually gonna take a First Corinthians Jeopardy quiz. Nice. All right, questions made by AI, I think it was ChatGPT, I'm not really sure. Yeah. Uh so we're gonna do that, and then we're gonna tackle First Corinthians nine. Yep. We're gonna look at the emphasis that Paul has in First Corinthians nine, the the biblical responsibility to pay ministers. Yep. We're gonna talk about how does that fit in with tithing?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_04Are Christians supposed to tithe?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_04Uh we're gonna talk about then the the missional responsibility to remove barriers from the gospel.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_04Um, and then we're gonna talk about okay, if if there's an inward change that's required for that to happen, yeah, then where does that inward change come from? So that's where we're gonna go. Mother's Day weekend. How was the Mother's Day weekend at the same house?
SPEAKER_00Okay, Mother's Day weekend was good. Um Heather likes a clean yard, and I like a clean yard too, but not as much as like to actually have to clean it. So uh I had a big I had a big cleanup project on Saturday for that, just to give her a beautiful yard. And there are these vines in South Carolina that grow up, and uh they're like devil vines. They're just super strong and they grow super fast, and uh whatever they and and they get up in the trees. And I I I literally, there were so many of them in this tree. I literally chainsawed the tree and it just like sat there and kind of just sat and all the vines are just still just staring at. I literally chainsaw this entire tree. There's like hack this thing that just you cut a tree down to cut the vines down? Yes, yes. And but uh, you know, I the Laurax, but uh you know I like trees, but I was fine, like there's a lot of trees around here. I'm gonna like this one will not be missed, and I will not get this done for mom if I don't just do this with a power tool right now.
SPEAKER_04Well, shout out to uh Holkron Cincinnati. Yeah. Um maybe you'll make a call next time. That's right.
SPEAKER_00That's it.
SPEAKER_04So to incorporate a little bit of competitive fun, we we got our friends over with some sort of AI to write some some questions.
SPEAKER_03All right.
SPEAKER_04Five questions from First Corinthians, okay, uh, chapters one through nine. Neither of us know what the questions are, yeah, and we're gonna see who wins it. So five questions can't be a tie. Okay. All right, so Michaela, she she has the questions over there, and uh, if you know the answer, boom, you hit it. And if we both get stumped, uh, this could be embarrassing. So we'll we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_01All right, number one, the Corinthians argued over following Paul, Apollos, and Cephas like they were picking favorite YouTubers. Question. What are blank in the church?
unknownBlank in the church.
SPEAKER_00Uh I'm not sure I don't understand the question. Apostles.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04What are blank in the church?
SPEAKER_01Uh what are the Corinthians argued over who they would follow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What are these called in the church?
SPEAKER_04Pastors. What are pastors?
SPEAKER_01Alright, that was a test. The answer was what are divisions in the church.
SPEAKER_04Oh. Divisions, okay. Yeah, yeah, divisions. We knew that.
SPEAKER_01Okay, all right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know what? I blame AI. It's right. Chat GPT, bad question. We knew that answer. Device of allegiance is overlecigen. Their favorite leader, that's chapters one to four. We knew that. Okay. All right, let's try it.
SPEAKER_00Not one of us has to win three to four.
SPEAKER_04All right, let's go.
SPEAKER_01Instead of solving problems peacefully, believers were doing this. It was an episode.
unknownWhoa.
SPEAKER_04Did I get it? I think it's a question.
SPEAKER_01Like it was an episode of Judge Judy.
SPEAKER_04What is taking each other to court uh slash lawsuits? Suing one another. Correct. Adam, what chapter is that?
SPEAKER_00So uh lawsuits is chapter, hang on, we just did eight, seven, so seven. Five. Five. Chapter five. Seven is marriage. Oh, that's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_04Is um wait, no, it's chapter six. Chapter six. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's right for marriage. Yeah. All right, chapter five is sexual immorality. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Question number three. We're good. We got this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we were there.
SPEAKER_01Alrighty. Paul says your body is this, not a dumpster for bad decisions.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Temple. What what is the temple? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright. I believe that's you.
SPEAKER_00I think when you hit it, you should stop talking. Like if you eat it.
SPEAKER_04Okay, that's true. That's true.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. So cause because I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So all right.
SPEAKER_04So whoever who when once there's a hit, making up rules as we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, what is the temple?
unknownAlrighty.
SPEAKER_01All things are lawful.
SPEAKER_00Not all things are permissible.
unknownThat is correct.
SPEAKER_04Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, is that what's the statement in the form of a question?
SPEAKER_00But um our not permissible.
SPEAKER_04What is not permissible? Alright, we'll give it that's Adam. Alright, this is the last one.
unknownAlrighty.
SPEAKER_04This last one was worth three points? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I feel like this one is hard.
SPEAKER_04Okay, good. Alright, nice.
SPEAKER_01Hard but badly worded.
SPEAKER_04Badly worded. Okay, perfect. Alright, but you have to stop talking if we hit the big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Paul says Christians shouldn't brag about this, even though the Corinthians acted like they won't just do it.
SPEAKER_00So the an uh what they shouldn't brag about they shouldn't brag uh what is uh have an incest, essentially. What is incest? What is uh moral immorality in the home or that is not correct.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay, you know what, but that's where we're gonna argue and say in chapter five, he does say that there's a man sleeping with his father's wife, and he says, and they are proud.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So okay, you take a real answer. Well, I think if we were in chapter 12 to 14, we'd say they're bragging about their spiritual giftedness. Um but this is questions from chapters one and nine. So uh can I ask permission to finish the question? Yes. Yeah, because you question finish.
unknownAlrighty.
SPEAKER_01Paul says Christians shouldn't brag about this, even though the Corinthians acted like they won the Super Bowl.
SPEAKER_00AI stinks, dude. Even though they act like they won the Super Bowl. This is probably like, you know, you're acting like this, but shouldn't you be ashamed of this? That's why I thought, like, you know, toss out the immoral brother.
SPEAKER_04Um Yeah. I got nothing.
SPEAKER_01Spiritual pride.
SPEAKER_04Really? Wait, wait, wait. We are getting a new question asker, not asker, you can't leave it great. We're getting a new question composer for next week.
SPEAKER_00But you you you you jumped out to two-no on that though. So uh I think I I I would concede, you know, with after that with the muck, I would concede the wind to Will because of of of the clear wins that he got on the book.
SPEAKER_04All right, well, we'll pick it up next week. Uh but to we want to be able to hold the book in our hand. Chapters one through five, one through six is rebukes, chapters seven through sixteen is replies, chapters one through four, rebuke is device of allegiances, chapter five, sexual immorality, that and and they're proud. Chapter six, lawsuits, they're suing one another. Those are the rebukes. And then marriage and seven, and then marriage and seven, and conscience and eight, and now a case study in conscience, uh, that is chapter nine. That's where we are today. So um, what I want to do is I want to go through the text. We're gonna read it again because we're Bible church, and uh, if we're gonna talk about the Bible, we should read the Bible. And I want to talk about the three emphases that Paul has in this. Really two emphases and then a third. The one is the biblical responsibility to pay ministers, the second, the missional responsibility to um to remove barriers from the gospel, and then the third is just the gospel hope for an inner transformation that would be able to redefine reward as not something that I have to get, but something I have to offer or something I have to lay down. Like that in his mind, that was rewarding. To get there, that's that's internal transformation. Yep. So uh we're gonna read the text first, and the goal, we want to be able to think biblically about God, life, and culture. And so I think a lot of things are gonna come up uh that we didn't have a chance to talk about in the sermon, especially like things like the tithe. How does the tithe fit into this? All right, so 1 Corinthians chapter 9. Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. Point, I'm an apostle. What he's about to say is I have rights as an apostle. Here they are. My defense to those who examine me is this Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? So it does seem like at least a couple of the other apostles were married.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, almost it seems like this is all of them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working? All right, so now he's gonna make a case for why he has the biblical right to be able to be paid as a minister. Yeah. Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock? Uh, or I missed one. Who sold who serves as a soldier is at his own expense? Verse eight, I'm not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the law also say these things? For it is written in the law of Moses, you shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing. Let the boy eat while he works. That's what it's saying. Yep. God's not concerned about oxen, is he? Or is he speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the ploughman ought to plough in hope, and the thresher to thresh in the hope of sharing the crops. Here's the point. That was the Old Testament example. Here's the point. If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? If others share this right over you, do we not more? So he's an apostle, he has rights in an apostle, and one of those rights is to be able to be financially supported for his spiritual work.
SPEAKER_00And he's invoking this ancient law of sowing and reaping, right? So he says, you know, if we all agree that he who sows should reap. And he's saying, I sowed spiritual things in you, and therefore uh I should reap physical things from you. So he's invoking an ancient law.
SPEAKER_04Yep. Yeah, so so we have this biblical responsibility uh to pay ministers. And if it's not clear yet, he's about to make it really clear. Um and here's what he says in verse twelve If others share this right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel. So he has this missional responsibility to um to cause no hindrance to the gospel. He's gonna let go of his rights for the sake of the gospel. Okay. Now, another Old Testament example with a final sort of conclusion. Do you not know those that those who perform the sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar? So also, so here's and he's going to the words of Jesus, not just Old Testament, not just cultural norms, but words of Jesus. So also the Lord directed, Jesus directed, those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel. Okay, so that's that's the passage and the biblical responsibility to pay ministers. Yep. Okay, that's that's he gives cultural norms, he gives um some Old Testament practice, and he gives the command of Jesus, referencing Luke 10. The worker is worthy of his wages. That's right. Okay, so um I just want to throw out a question here. If if there's a biblical responsibility that we have to pay ministers, uh question one for me is okay, how does that fit in with a tithe? And uh is that part of the tithe? Is that not part of the tithe? Is it is this separate? Uh how does this fit in? And what does the Bible even say about tithe? So let me let me let you go first on that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I mean, the the the the idea of tithing is ancient as well and given to the law, uh, to Moses through the law. And it sounds simple and it can be, it's not as simple as it seems, because um tithing was, you know, a little bit of 10% on this and 10% on that. And so it's not strictly simple, 10% across the board, give it to God. But the word tithe means 10th. And so in essence, God was saying, essentially, uh, if you want to boil it down to simplify, yes, give a tenth of everything to so all of Israel, 12 tribes, gave all 11 tribes tithe to the one tribe, the Levites, because they didn't have land. They were servants in the temple. And then that tribe tithe one 10% of everything they received to the house of Aaron, the high priestly family. So, yes, it was an ancient practice, and it's how God supported his ministers all throughout the Old Testament, uh, 1500 years of history from Moses to Jesus.
SPEAKER_04100%. So let me just read one of the verses. There's a lot that we could read from Deuteronomy 14, especially, but Numbers 18 talks about it as well. Numbers 18, 24 says, For the tithe of the sons of Israel, which they offer as an offering to the Lord.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's an important distinction, is that the tithe was not given from one the eleven tribes to the one tribe. It was given from the eleven tribes to the Lord. Yeah, and he continually, God continually claims this as his.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So for the tithe of the sons of Israel, which they offer as an offering to the Lord, I, God, have given to the Levites for an inheritance. Therefore I have said to said concerning them, they shall have no inheritance among the sons of Israel. So everything that you just said, just reading it from the text.
SPEAKER_00Many places in the scriptures, God says, You give to the Levites my tithe, you know, my part. And when and when God rebukes them for being uh lazy in this or uh somehow uh negligent, he doesn't say, Hey, you're not giving this to the Levites. He says, You're defrauding me. You haven't given me my tithe. And and so he takes God takes what they give to the Levites personally as as belonging to him. Yeah. And that's important because he actually gave it to them in the first place, right? He's saying, he's not saying you owe me a tax. He's saying, you give me back a part to honor and respect the fact that everything you have belongs to me.
SPEAKER_04Right. 100%. Um, okay, so that's a little bit of a uh theology of tithe in the Old Testament. A lot of us who grew up going to church heard, maybe on a weekly base basis, the word tithe. You know, we're gonna pass around our um our offering box for our weekly tithes and offerings, right? Or something like that. Um so is tithing something that New Testament Christians are required to do? And is it how does that play into this biblical biblical responsibility that we have to pay ministers?
SPEAKER_00Right. So, I mean, there's so much about the New Testament that is continuous of the Old Testament, but one thing that is not is needing to fulfill the law because Jesus did that, right? And so we don't we are not bound by the law to fulfill the tenth uh of this and tenth of that. What we are bound to are the principles contained therein, and we are still bound by the nature of God reflected in those laws. And so giving is very much a part of the New Testament. So the word, there's no command in the New Testament to tithe. No.
SPEAKER_04And that's that's really important, just to pause you right there. Yes. That where there's a New Testament command, there is authority, there is, there must be submission. Yes. Right. And so we're not saying that uh that, well, it's not really a command, it's just kind of living by a principle. There are New Testament commands, and so where there's a New Testament command, we say, Yes, Lord, we're under the authority. But but the New Testament does not ever give a command to tithe. That's right. Um, for well, it's just not there.
SPEAKER_00Right. Uh the New Testament uh gives commands to be generous, to give, and in and and Jesus, you know, gave that example to support the the workers in the gospel, support them with wages. And so there are examples of giving and generosity. What the New Testament does do is it creates money as a litmus test for your heart. So even John the Baptist, when everyone was coming out to John the Baptist, and all the examples he gave of, you know, show your heart with righteous deeds, they were all related to money, you know, like he told the tax collectors, don't come, don't take more than you're than than you're allowed. And he told the soldiers, don't extort, be content with your pay. And he told other people, if you have two cloaks, give away one to the man who is in needs. So all of John the Baptist's examples actually had to do with finances. And the thing about Jesus and the rich young ruler, you know, who he comes to him and says, Hey, what must I do to be saved? Jesus says, What do you how do you read the commands? He says, Well, you know, don't do this, don't do this, do this. And he says, Yep, I've kept all those. And Jesus says, Okay, I've got one more for you. Go and sell everything, give the money to the poor, and then come follow me. And Jesus tithes, don't covet to have no other gods before me. And that's what he can't do. And so I just uh the money is continually brought up in the New Testament as a form of God's generosity as well as a litmus test of our true righteousness.
SPEAKER_04So you're saying that uh uh we are not obligated to tithe, but where the New Testament doesn't command tithing, the new the New Testament has a lot to say about generosity.
SPEAKER_00A lot to say, yes. So we're not commanded to give a tenth. We are commanded to be generous, to uh demonstrate um uh sacrificial giving. And uh and and in fact, there are places where it says, you know, if if you don't help those who are near to you, like your your immediate family, you are literally worse than an unbeliever. So you you have denied the faith. Uh Randy Alcorn says it this way if God is not God of your money, he is not your God. And I I think that is a great way just to summarize it.
SPEAKER_04Okay. All right, so we're trying to connect two things right here. We're trying to c connect a 1 Corinthians 9, news New Testament teaching on the biblical responsibility to pay ministers, and trying to understand how that fits with the tithe. What we've said so far, and I think this could be really different from what a lot of our church grew up hearing. We're saying that the the tithe, the the giving 10% to your church is actually not a New Testament, is not a command for us that we ne that we have to submit to. That's what we're saying. That's right. And uh that in the absence of that, there is the this new um addressing of the heart and generosity. So it's not that giving is off the table. Giving is still on the table, it's just it's less about the percentage, more about the heart. Right. And so how does that then fit in with the biblical responsibility to pay ministers? I wanna throw something at you and get uh your thoughts. Um that I I heard something that really helped my framework of sort of the biblical stewardship in terms of giving that really helped me. Okay. Four priorities. And we'll get to this when we get to 1 Corinthians 16, yeah, but I want to throw them out right now. Okay, the four priorities are number one, it's from 1 Timothy 5, where Paul says, if you don't provide for your family, you're worse than an unbeliever. Right. So in terms of biblical stewardship, priority one is to my immediate family. You already referenced to that. Okay. Priority two is not to my immediate family, but to my spiritual family. Where's that? That's 1 Corinthians 9, where it says, the Lord has directed that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living from the gospel. Right. Okay, so that's my um my spiritual family and the ministers. The third priority is those extending the spiritual family, i.e. ministers. Right. Romans 10 is gonna call that beautiful. Okay, so my immediate family, my spiritual family, those extending the spiritual family.
SPEAKER_00And by extending spiritual family, you you're basically meaning missionaries. I mean missionaries. Who are sent, right?
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and then yeah, Romans 10 there. And then priority four is going to be the poor and the vulnerable. Yeah. And Proverbs 22 is gonna call that blessed. Yeah so priority one, if you don't do that, you're worse than an unbeliever. Priority two, the Lord has directed it. Priority three is Romans 10 says beautiful, and then priority four, blessed. That's that's how we arrange the priorities. Yeah, and that really helped me to go, okay, um, if if the tithe, the 10% tithe, isn't um a binding command for me, how do I steward my money in terms of giving and generosity? And we've tried to um to fund our uh to let our giving reflect those priorities. Yeah. Uh, our immediate family. We don't have any like real needs in our immediate family in terms of like uh a sick family member or something, so that's not really an issue for us. Uh priority two, we give to our church, the spiritual family. Yeah. Priority three, we give to those extending the spiritual family missionaries. So we we have some missionaries that we give on a monthly basis to. Yeah. And priority four, the poor and the vulnerable. We have um what we give to a choice to make monthly as uh as part of a reflection of that priority in giving. So I think this is this that was really helpful for me to hear that. I think I was in college, maybe high school when I heard that. So okay, this helps me know how to steward uh my giving in a direction that really honors God in in in the heart, not just kind of the tenth.
SPEAKER_00And I and I agree with that. And we've nearly identically structured our finances so that the the amount that we set aside for giving uh is also in those in those categories. Uh I hadn't thought about it exactly that way, but um, yes, immediate family needs, which you're right at this point, you know, that and that that's going to be more episodic, right? It's not going to be like ongoing typically. Uh but um but there were there have been times when I've stepped in to help a family member that were that was some kind of crisis. But but secondly, the lion share goes to my church, my regular church, because I'm reaping and I want to sow back into that. Uh third to missionaries, we also have missionaries we support on a monthly basis to extend the gospel with those beautiful feet. And then fourthly, the vulnerable, we actually set aside a certain amount of our giving each month just in a cash envelope so that we can be ready for with some when something comes up. There might be a teacher in the school that has you know whose house burned down, or there's a certain need that we understand that's critical in that moment. And we we we we budget for looking for needs to help with someone. There was uh people in a group that I'm in that had a Family member that was destitute, and we all pulled together. And then there was another family member, and one of our group members passed away, and there were some needs there. And so we're able to respond to those because we're ready for it and we plan ahead.
SPEAKER_04Funny you should say that. That's actually something that is really brewing in my heart for our church to be able to have a budget category for being able to meet needs like when they come up. And I'm hoping to roll that out in December. So we'll we'll we'll see what happens there. Um okay, but so for the really black and white people, you're going, okay, so am I supposed to give 10% or not? Short answer, no. 10% is not the uh the mark. So what is the mark? 1 Corinthians 16 and 2 Corinthians 9 are gonna use these words. 1 Corinthians 16 will say, we give as we may prosper. Right. Second Corinthians 9, or is it chapter 8? I think it's yeah, it's 2 Corinthians 9 says, we give uh cheerfully, as each has purposed in his heart. That's right. Well, how much is that? Right. It doesn't say.
SPEAKER_00It doesn't say. It doesn't say and and I and I want to say I do want to say two things about that, about the amount. First, I think people uh you probably heard this growing up. I certainly did. I think it's I think it's wrong and inappropriate. People, you know, ministers when they really wanted to get the the the the the the the bucket full would say things like, just give what Jesus is worth to you, you know. And I was like, okay, Jesus is infinitely worthy to me. So I I there that that I thought was just super unhelpful. So, you know, please don't be under that yoke. Um but then what do you give? And I and I thought that the idea of the 10% as a starting point was a good for me personally. Now I don't let my light be your law, right? I don't want to put this on you. But I thought that for me as I read the Old Testament, I didn't want to give less than he required of his people in the Old Testament. There may be a season in your life when you do, you know, for whatever reason, you know, and and that there's no judgment and no law to that you're breaking if you drop under that 10% mark for whatever reason. Um but for me personally, I really try to hope because I've prospered. And and and and and for the most part, I want to start with that 10% and go up from there. Um, and as you say, you we don't give according to our wealth, we don't give out of our wealth, like you know what I have left over. We give according to it. And so if you prosper more, give more. Um, one famous example is um now I haven't fully fact-checked this, but the rumor is that C.S. Lewis did what some people do in reverse tithe, right? He kept 10% and gave 90. And how could he do that? For most of his life, he was single, he lived in you know, uh university housing and was given a university food allowance. He had almost no expenses except his time at the pub with Tolkien and the Inklings. So he he could do that, but he did, you know, and he chose to give to give a much greater percentage because he could. And I think that would be my goal, to give what I can, right? And yes, to cover my basis, but give what I can and to invest in internal things.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I I think that's actually really helpful. And it it is worth noting, I think, that before there was an old testament law around tithing, there was uh examples of giving a tenth before the law. Both Jacob and Abraham gave a tenth quote to Melchizedek and well, Abraham to Melchizedek. So there there is the the practice of this tithing before it was even a law to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so this this this principle of giving, right, is is is there from the beginning. And even Cain and Abel, right? I mean, like they brought offerings to God. And what percentage was it? We don't know, you know, but literally Adam's children were bringing offerings to God, and that's how that got them into trouble, you know, right from the start.
SPEAKER_04Uh I I think this is helpful. We're trying to think biblically about the the biblical responsibility to pay ministers and and the how that fits more broadly under the umbrella of uh giving and stewarding our giving. So I hope that helps us uh think through that. That's uh the case that the text is making. The second thing that is really the greater emphasis in the passage is the missional responsibility to give up that freedom that he kind of gives it up. He does give it up, but for to not cause hindrance to the gospel. The reason the reason I say he kind of gives it up if you're there on Sunday is he doesn't receive anything from them. He says, No, I'm not gonna take anything from you, but he's able to do that because of what he does receive from the churches in Macedonia who sent a gift to him from Timothy and Silas so that he could devote himself fully to the work and not have to be part-time, you know, tent maker and part-time missionary pastor.
SPEAKER_00And and that's um a principle that we see even today, you know. So missionaries who go into a tribe don't require that tribe to support them. They're supported by foreign churches who support them to go there. And uh what you then what you see, because they they're asking this tribe, you know, to to listen to them, but they don't want to say, okay, I'm gonna sell it. Pay up. Yeah, pay up, and then I'll give you the and that because then it feels too transactional. The gospel feels transactional. It it needs to be presented as a gift. And eventually, then when ministers are raised up within an indigenous culture, they begin to be supported by their own people. And that's that's had been the model. It was Paul's model. It's still our model today.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So whatever the case, Paul had a right to receive something that he laid down that right for the sake of the gospel, to not cause hindrance to the gospel. Yeah. And so I think it's incumbent on us to go, all right, what are some things, some rights, some liberties, freedoms that I would have that I would uh lay down for the sake of the gospel? Or to to start perhaps more broadly, what are some things that cause hindrance to the gospel now that you might be inclined to see among church people?
SPEAKER_00And I think it would be good to clarify, Will to what you mean by lay it down for the sake of the gospel, because is it like I'm laying it down because God really prefers me not to do it? Or I'm laying it down so that the person in front of me will respond a certain way. How do we avoid, and I guess these two ditches I'm trying to avoid are on the one hand, um, sort of creating a works-based manipulation of God. Lord, if I lay this down, you're gonna be more pleased with me, right? And the other ditch is um, if I, if I lay this down, then I'm kind of manipulating the people in front of me to like, you know, you get them hooked on the the truth, and then okay, now that you're hooked, I want you to pay me for it, you know. And so it's sort of like a uh the the free subscription is over and now I want you to pay. So how do we avoid those ditches? Like what's happening? What do you what is it in short, what does it mean to lay something down for the gospel? Why would that be helpful or or or or or fruitful?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a great question. And I think with most of these things, it's very few of these things are black and white, easy, and uh like universally applied because as I mean, we're coming out of chapter eight, which is conscience. Yeah. Um so that's a good question. Let me think. I think there's going to be a an individual application of these depending on how you're wired and depending on what you your people need.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So Paul laid down his right to receive money for an initial phase of ministry, so that, and I think he was trying to separate himself, separate the message of truth and God through Christ from the typical philosophers who would essentially sell their services, you know, like traveling teachers. Yeah. And he's like, this isn't for sale, you know, uh this is for free. Um, obviously, to live costs money, but I want to separate, I don't want you to feel like you need to pay me to get this information. I want you to receive it freely from me. And when the time is, you know, God will provide. And when the time is right, if you give something for it, I want it to be from you internally, not because I've charged you. You know, and so I think Paul is saying, I want to give this gift to you, Corinthians. And if you pay for it or not, that's fine. Because I want to prove to you that I'm gonna trust in God and that he will provide. Um, so Paul is laying it down for the sake of the gospel. I think in this case, it meant to demonstrate God's sacrificial love to the Corinthians.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, definitely sacrificial love. And I think that's kind of the undergirding principle behind it. Very simply, he's going, okay, I'm trying to win some people to Jesus in in the city of Corinth, and I'm trying to discern what would be a hindrance to them coming to Jesus. And whatever I discern will be a hindrance to them coming to Jesus, I'm going to lay that aside, even if I have a right to do it. And so, so let's try to answer this question a little bit. What are some uh some of the big hindrances that a lot of people have to uh to faith in Jesus? Uh some one hindrance would be um there's gonna be intellectual hindrances, like just uh it can't be proven. Right. And uh that would be a hindrance. Um extraordinary claims take extraordinary evidence, and we don't have extraordinary evidence, and so we have a resurrection that we have good reason to believe, but uh that's the claim. Um so there's intellectual barriers. Um I think there's emotional barriers uh that are can be intertwined sometimes with the uh the intellectual ones that you know how could how could God have let XYZ happen? Right.
SPEAKER_00If you think in a very simple um practical example of you know laying aside something not to be a hindrance to the gospel for the sake of the gospel. So uh in our neighborhood, we have a 20 mile an hour speed limit, um, which I love. Yeah, because uh I just enjoy that kind of slow launch or slow return, but not everybody does, right? And so yeah, it's and it's tempting if I get in a hurry, I want to like get home quick. I forgot something, I've got to get get back and get out. And um, but I I know people in my neighborhood know that I'm a minister, I'm a Christian, and if I'm ripping through that neighborhood and there's kids playing or whatever's happened, that is a hindrance to the gospel. Now that they're gonna assume it's true about God what I've just demonstrated. And so I think in order to, for the sake of the gospel, I'm gonna lay aside that I wouldn't say it's a right, but ability to just kind of, you know, drive 40 through the neighborhood to get back for what I've forgotten and just make sure that that that I lay that down and demonstrate patience and safety precautions to show respect for my neighbors. And because I say I love my neighbor, but if I act like I don't when I'm driving behind the wheel in our neighborhood, then that will be a hindrance to the gospel.
SPEAKER_04I I think I think that's a good sort of simple example that that is a little bit like you know, tucking your shirt in to not cause hindrance to the gospel, what I referenced on Sunday. But um maybe if you step back and just a bigger picture and some things that we can do that cause hindrance to the gospel, uh hypocrisy. Hypocrisy causes uh massive barriers to the gospel in terms of winning people to Jesus. Um pretty self-explanatory, but yeah, uh people seeing us one way on one day and then another way on another day, right? That that causes that that that is a hindrance to the gospel.
SPEAKER_00Or they some guy gets uh kind of shortchanged on a business deal, or maybe uh a contractor does a kind of a jerk job on your renovation, but then you see him in church and go, wait a second, if that's the kind of people here, that's not that's not this is not where I want to be.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Uh so hypocrisy and another thing that I think can cause hindrance to the gospel is overzealous political partisanship.
SPEAKER_02Ooh, buddy.
SPEAKER_04Uh so I'm gonna be stepping into some potentially some stuff here, yeah. But I definitely am not of the opinion that we should be disengaged politically at all. Uh, but I do think that an overzealous political partisanship, in other words, um a so on one team that I can't boo when my team does something bad, that I can't call out my team for um for errors, right? Um then it really starts to seem, and I think our culture is is here, it starts to seem like we are more political than we are Christian, yeah. And that one identity trumps the other. The the identity of you know, yeah, Republican or Democrat would be superior to Christian, and that cannot be, and I think that's a big hindrance to the gospel. The word Christian nationalism gets thrown around a lot now. And um, and so I think we need to be careful about what that uh actually means versus what it's um kind of been skewed to mean. Um but overzealous political partisanship, I think, is something that we need to use discernment on. Okay, yeah, uh in what way is am I potentially hindering the gospel based on that?
SPEAKER_00There's no doubt God calls us to to being civically minded and engaged in our communities and governments. But you're right, when it begins to twist the way you think and it and sort of divides you from others, and you you can't like you know call your own people out for mistakes or celebrate the other side for good good things they do. Yes, then then you've gone too far. You know, you've you've made it a part of your identity now uh that is creating unnecessary division and uh it it it which is why it destroys the gospel, because the gospel is supposed to be about you know uh sacrificial love, about uniting us together and not dividing us from each other.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And I want to give a little bit of nuance there because I think what I'm trying to discern in my own mind as we're talking through this is there's an overzealous political partisanship that can be a hindrance to the gospel. However, um what that is not to say that uh zeal for cultural change or political involvement, uh if that's a hindrance to the gospel, then in some ways, so be it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Uh it is the overzealous political partisanship that I am uh sort of addressing, not political uh or a zeal for interest and engagement. So um because what you were saying about, you know, it should be uniting more than dividing, yes, but not always. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about uh as as we're kind of preparing for the podcast, there are some things that Jesus was not willing to do um in that could have fallen under the banner of, well, I don't want to cause uh hindrance to the gospel. Right. Like um there there are some things that Jesus was gonna be like, no, this is gonna be a stumbling block, and he wasn't gonna remove that. Like he wasn't gonna water down the message so for the sake of inclusivity, right? For the sake of tolerance, he was going to say in John 6, you got to eat my flesh and drink my blood. And when everybody's going, no, this is hard for us. We don't get this. He doesn't like, well, you know, maybe water it down a little bit. No, he digs in deeper, and and when you know, those 5,000 plus dwindles down to just a few, the disciples plus some. Uh yeah, he caused hindrance, but in that case, he needed to because what we can't do is decide, well, I don't want to be a barrier to the gospel, so I'm gonna water the gospel down. Right. That cannot be the answer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the it can't be the most important thing to preserve a false unity. You know, the most important thing is to honor the foundation and to honor what truth is being uh either reinforced or contradicted at a given moment. And so uh that's why uh it's so key to understand what is the gospel, how does it impact our lives, and then how does it play out in all these different areas. So that, yeah, so there are times when G it would the the point was not to create division. The point was to uh to to not create division over non-divisive issues, um, and to to to create unity where we where we can have it, but to to to to can insist on the foundation being uh maintained.
SPEAKER_04Yes, I agree. And so let me give one more um thought on barriers to the gospel. One was hypocrisy, another one was overzealous political partisanship, and then a third is I think just an inability to listen across the board. That's a barrier to the gospel. Christians who just can't listen to what other people have to say, who have to go in debate mode immediately, and by debate mode I mean just crush the opponent and straw man all their everything they have to say. I think that causes real uh hindrance to the gospel. And and part of uh a missional responsibility that we have is to be able to sit down and listen to people like like put on your curiosity hat and just learn. What do they think? What do they believe? Why do they believe it without um and and then engaging that to not the sort of weakest version of what they would of what they actually believe.
SPEAKER_00Well, and unfortunately, there's a lot of Christians that genuinely believe that Christianity is essentially a set of a set of truths that you assent to. And so it's all a pure. And so if you believe the right thing, then you're a Christian. And that is not biblical, it's not right. And Plato himself divided man into three parts uh the mind, the heart, and the gut. And you see that a lot in scripture too. Um, and and as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he, right? And so we we have more than just our minds. And so unfortunately, a lot of Christians think if I can just basically make this person believe this truth, and if they're talking some different talk, then um it's my job to steer them back to the path when I think you're exactly right. The the job in that moment is to listen, to understand, to love, and and and to to figure out what is happening first, to really understand the person and then to treat them as a whole person, not just a mind that needs to assent to something, but to treat them as a human that is in need of redemption. And there's a lot more going on there than just let's argue about this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So if I could just take my podcast hat off for a second and speak with a more pastoral hat, I just want to say to our church that we have a missional responsibility, speaking to our church. We have a missional responsibility to remove barriers and three barriers to be really mindful of. I think for us, church at Sandhurst, is one hypocrisy. I want people to be able to interact with me on Monday at Ultimate Frisbee, and then not be embarrassed when they see me on Sunday. Um, hypocrisy, to remove the barrier of overzealous political partisanship. We've already nuanced that, hopefully. And to remove the barrier that is the inability to listen. I think there can be some fear about that, some um and some things that you mentioned too. So uh, church, let's um let's remove those barriers so that we might win people to the gospel. And that's what where he's gonna be next week in chapter nine.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_04Um, but one other thing that I want to tackle together is what he says at the end of the passage. And I want to read it, but here's what he's gonna say. He's gonna say, um, if I were to preach the gospel and get paid for it by you, uh then my boast is an empty one. But actually, and that would lose my reward. And he's gonna define his reward as being able to offer the gospel without charge. And so let me read it and then highlight what I find um really impactful from it. Uh 1 Corinthians 9, picking up in verse 15, says, But I have used none of these things, and I'm not writing these things so that it will be done so in my case. For it would be better for me to die than have any man make my boast an empty one. For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of. For I'm under compulsion, like I have a responsibility here. For woe is me if I do not preach the gospel. For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward. But if against my will I have a stewardship entrusted to me. What then is my reward? And here's where he defines the reward, that when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel. So uh 1 Corinthians 9, it gives yes the biblical responsibility to pay ministers. It gives the missional responsibility to remove barriers. And then we see here just this gospel hope of an inward transformation where when he thinks reward, it's totally redefined. When you and I think reward, we think, what do I get? When he thinks reward, he goes, What do I offer? That's the reward. When I get to offer something without without charge and get nothing in return, that's reward. That's inward transformation. And I think I have a just real soft spar soft spot in my heart right now for people in our church who would love to be able to say, I've had that change happen in me. I have been so changed by the gospel that what I used to call reward, now I don't call that reward anymore. Now, reward to me is when I'm able to do something and get nothing in return. That's what I love. There's a lot of us who would love to have that inward change and have sought it and have not seen it in themselves.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so wanted to end our time just asking, where would you take that person to in scripture? The person who wants to be changed, but has struggled to change in any sort of uh sustained way.
SPEAKER_00So change involves many layers. Um, where to go in scripture? I mean, there's a number of scriptures, it kind of depends on what your barrier is to that transformation. Um, is it um Is do you feel like it's an emotional barrier with an experience you've had in the past? Uh do you is there, you know, is it a is it hypocrisy of someone in front of you? Is it your doubt? Is it intellectual doubts or whatever? And so there are many layers to those challenges that we face in transformation. But um, for me personally, I think I keep, you know, I I kind of keep going back to identity. You know, um James Clear talks about um identity-based goals, you know, in atomic habits. And and so instead of thinking outcome-based goals are I want to lose 20 pounds. Process-based goals are I want to go to the gym four times a week. But an identity goal is I want to be a fit person. And so for me, um, I go to the scriptures that shape my identity. And then out of that, I create processes in my life that will hopefully get to a certain outcome. All right, examples. So um it would be Matthew 22, you know, uh 37 to 40. Um, what are the two greatest commandments? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul mind, and strength to love your neighbors yourself. So try to keep it simple. Remember that everything I'm doing must fit into those two categories.
SPEAKER_04How's that identity though? That that sounds like the doing. What's the identity, identity behind that?
SPEAKER_00Someone who is loved. Uh it's like it's like a it's like a love tithe, right? You give it back to God, what he gave to you in the first place. We don't love God, we only love him back, right? We love him because he first loved us. So for me, because I'm loved, because I'm redeemed, because I'm uh I guess in that case, you know, it's Ephesians 1, you know, we're carfish, right? Because I'm chosen by God, adopted, uh, redeemed. See, car fish, forgiven, thank you, informed, sealed as heirs. So because I'm all these things, therefore, uh do all these things. And so I go back to Ephesians one, carfish, hugely helpful. And then that leads to a simple definition of being loved, loving God and people. And then what is love? 1 Corinthians 13. So I'd go to Ephesians 1, then Matthew 22, then I would go to 1 Corinthians 13, which talks about what love is, kind of breaks out the prism of the different elements of the of the ray of love. But I think also uh one other scripture uh that I would go to is Philippians 2, you know, that we follow the example of Jesus who emptied himself, right? He had a right to be God and just sit up in heaven and be awesome. But he laid aside that right and emptied himself of his of his glory and came and and made himself a servant and gave himself to others. So I think Philippians 2 reminds me that Jesus did this first and I'm doing it in his steps and by his power.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um those are really good thoughts. And I think um what I have kind of come to is going to say exactly what you just said, just in my own words. Yeah. Um, you know, you said starts with identity and then and then there are things gonna naturally flow out of identity. A leopard is gonna have spots, okay? Um but so so here's maybe I would even take one step further back and and to the person who's going, I want to be changed, but I feel like I'm just trying to change myself in all the God-honoring ways. And I I but I want him to change me. I would stay take one step further back and say, let's let's go back to just beholding God. Yes, let's just sit there for a second before I not maybe not sit there for a second, let's sit there for a while. And before I even go to who I am because of him, let's just start with who is he? And there's um a referenced mentor that I asked some, I asked somebody to mentor me, he said yes, and he was like, I'll do it, but I want you to pray for an hour a day. Uh and so I said, Okay, and there's four sort of parts of who God is that came out of that prayer time that have I think just been really good for me. Yeah. Um holy judge, righteous af advocate, loving father, sovereign king. I don't know why those four just were impressed on me, but it did my heart real like real good to just in my prayer time go, Lord, you are the you're the holy judge. That is a terrifying thing for me. But you're also righteous advocate. Thank you. And you are loving father and sovereign king. Taking taking time to just behold God, I think is I mean, biblically speaking, it's when people get this right view of God and that things start to change. Yeah, that um we just see all over the place.
SPEAKER_00When God was commissioning Moses to go do an incredible work, he didn't just kind of drop down an angel to give him notes. Okay, Moses, here here's the plan, you know, here's the strategy. There was a burning bush. And God called them over here and said, Moses, take off your shoes because you're in the presence of God. You know, and and they just had their time for Moses just to sit and bow in awe of God with bare feet. And I think that's you know, it reminds me of what you're describing, that that we we don't just kind of get the list, the the laundry list and run out and go do it. We need to be transformed by an encounter with God Himself.
SPEAKER_04Yes. So what am I saying there? I'm talking about like recentering myself on God. How do I do that? Like this whole holy, uh, holy judge, righteous advocate, loving father, sovereign king. I in one word, what I'm what I'm saying is worship. Yeah. Let's start with worship. Sing a song, quote a psalm, um, psalm 63. Just take literally take time and just worship God for who he is and just stay there for a second. Okay, that's that's kind of my starting point.
SPEAKER_00And then So do you have any any verses that are chapters that you would recommend people start in?
SPEAKER_04Because Yeah, I can tell you the ones that are just ministering to me and have for a long time. Psalm 63, Psalm 103 have really helped me. So Psalm 63, oh God, you are my God. Earnestly I seek you. My soul thirsts for you, my flesh yearns for you in a dry and weary land where there is no water. Thus I've seen you in the sanctuary to see your power and your glory, because your loving kindness is what? Better than better than life. My lips will praise you. It's just a refocusing there. Psalm 103 as well has that those have been really, really helpful for me. Colossians 1 um has been really good too. I've been praying it a lot in the worship service that we'd be strengthened with all power according to his glorious might. That's right. And so um, I'm just trying to behold the glorious might uh that he has made available to us by his spirit.
SPEAKER_00And I I I would agree with I love those, love those Psalms. I love Psalm 19. The heavens declare the glory of God. The sky's proclaiming the work of his hands and goes through and talks so much about God's glory and his word uh and how how it guides us and leads us. Uh, I like Exodus chapter one, you know, and and where where Moses is has this encounter, uh, Isaiah 6, you know, where God reveals himself uh is holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. Revelation 4 and 5. Just get a, you know, we get an image of the throne room of God and we get a kind of a peek behind the uh the curtain, so to speak, of of of divinity and see what is God's glory in Revelation 4 and 5. So these are some go-to chapters for me when I want simply to encounter the majesty, the infinity, the immensity, glory of God.
SPEAKER_04To be changed. Yeah. And so I'm saying start with worship, who he is. And then I I I would move to what you were talking about, the identity. Lots of passages you referenced Ephesians 1. Yeah, but again, more language that has really impacted me from 1 Corinthians. This is chapter 1. But by his doing, you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that just as it is written, let him who boasts boast in the Lord. So that that I think is a good connection between who am I because of Jesus and let him who boast boast in who? The Lord. So it started with worship, who is he, and now who am I because of him? But that go that always goes back to him. And so worship, um, identity, who am I because of him? Um those are probably two of the biggest things in terms of being changed. One other passage that from 1 Corinthians that has really stuck out to me. Um, or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you. Okay, now he's about to give some identity statements.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God. Yeah. Washed, sanctified, justified. So when I look in the mirror, um, it's like that moment in the Lion King, when m uh Simba looks in the water and Rafiki's like, tell me what you see, or something like that. He's uh I forget what he sees, but he's like, Look harder. He says that, and then when he looks in the mirror, not the mirror, the water, who does he see? He sees his dad. Yeah, he sees Mufasa. Yeah. And uh there's an identity that when we get to look in the mirror, yeah, we get to see that's right. Washed, sanctified, justified. We get to see the righteousness of Christ put on our account. And and I think if if we start with worship and then identity, uh then um then there's gonna be an abiding in him that will produce change slowly over time. And I do um there's probably more that could be said about that, but I think I think that's what I want to emphasize for us in an inward change that starts with worship, who is God, and then identity, who am I? And then what do I do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I mean, we like you say, there's a lot of you know details we could get into as as to the how, but I I do want to throw it, flag up that for our people, it's not like this, you know, with the uh movies like that, which are awesome, and I love the reference, and it's true. Um, but sometimes you can get the image, this idea like, okay, I'm just gonna walk in the woods and I'm gonna have this encounter with God, and then I'm gonna be this like like superman, you know, like as I'm gonna be different. And and I want to just tell people you need those encounters, but they are signposts on a journey that takes time and effort. Get it into your schedule, get it into your calendar, daily time with God. It's a walk, it's a journey. It's a and and so to keep going and to keep investing time in that relationship.
SPEAKER_04100%. All right. Well, I love it. Uh that wraps up our time together. And so thanks for joining us. Adam, thanks for your time. Michaela, thanks for your uh your chat, GPT, the questions. We don't blame you, but we blame AI. Blame AI. All right, we'll see you next time.